Interview with Virulilla and Saldiguera

Many of you may know the classic story, recounted here, of how the Muñequitos formed: One evening, sitting in the Bar "El Gallo," they burst into a spontaneous percussion jam at the sound of Arsenio Rodriguez on the jukebox and decided to form a group.

In this interview, founding members Virulilla (Hortensio Alfonso) and Saldiguera (Esteban Lantri) give a much different version. It seems they had been singing together for over 10 years before Saldiguera got the idea of forming the Muñequitos, and they went in search of like-minded musicians.

Click below for a transcript and translation of the interview.

Entrevistadora: En pleno festival de la rumba, he coincidido con dos viejos rumberos: Saldiguera y Virulilla, dos fundadores de Los Muñequitos de Matanzas


Quería decirles que hemos apreciado en este festival de la rumba que el matancero la lleva en la sangre, que responde inmediatemente que suena un tambor, una conga, que se ve que vibra con ella. ¿Qué opinion tienen uds. de la vigencia, del arraigo de la rumba aqui?

Saldiguera: La rumba esta que se está dando hoy aquí en Matanzas es una de las cosas más grandes, que yo que he caminado la isla, he visto.

Nosotros no tuvimos la suerte de que nadie nos enseñaran. Nosotros solos, solos, solos, solos.
Porque yo fui un cantante que canté en muchos conjuntos y en muchas cosas. Yo domino muchas cosas.

Para entonces Virulilla, que es un poco mas chico que yo, ¿tú me entiendes? Andábamos juntos, andábamos juntos...

Empezamos entonces yo mismo le veía la voz, dije, "¡Concha, Tiene una voz imensa!"

Empezamos, empezó así una tercera voz. Y pam, y viene, viene, viene, entonces, nos íbamos para todos lugares allí tomábamos por la madrugada que a veces no dormíamos hasta las 4 o las 5 de mañana, a veces que no dormíamos, y el ensayo de nosotros era por la calle entonces la se retire…

Ent: por la calle?

Saldiguera: Por la calle. Esa era la casa de nosotros para nosotros ensayar.

Int: ¿Pero como es posible?

Saldiguera: Claro, porque veníamos nosotros dos íbamos cantando solo. Íbamos en el año treinta, compramos un bistec que allí sirvían un bistec que estaba bueno... lo comprábamos, veníamos comiendo el bistec entonces “¿Te acuerdo de esto?” y concha, digo, vamos a probar a ver, y allí metíamos mano y le ensayábamos.

Virulilla: Así es cómo ensayábamos nosotros.

Ent: ¿ Y a qué hora hacían eso? Me imagino que sería…

Saldiguera: No no no…Tarde de la noche, nosotros a veces que no dormiamos, veces que no dormiamos. Por que la situación era muy dura. Esto, no teníamos otro ambiente muy trabajadora desde niño, porque él era mecánico y yo soy azucarero. Pero antes del azúcar, yo me crié allí en La Francesa, con los Fernandez allí. Entonces siempre de niño estoy cantando. Yo desde 1923 estoy cantando.

Ent: ¡Toda una vida cantando!

Saldiguera: ¡Ud. era muy chiquita!

Ent: ¡No, yo no pensaba ni venir al mundo!

Virulilla: Esa es la historia de Saldiguera y Virulilla. Yo, como electricista y él, azucarero.

Pero jamás nunca na', porque en esa etapa no había auge en nada. Entonces nosotros teníamos eso por placer y que nos gustaba. Entonces nos dimos la tarea de… por idea de Saldiguera, “Virula, que tú crees si hacemos un grupo? Dígole “Saldi, es una idea perfecta pero tenemos que buscar valores, ¿no? O individuos que reunan nuestra cualidad, y que sean correctos igual que nosotros y empezamos como trabajadores de muelle que era Chachá… buscamos a Goyito, buscamos a Papi, buscamos a Pelladito.

Pelladito era un comecandela en la etapa aquella pa’ buscarse 4 pesos tenía que agarrar una guitarra, corriendo la tra por alla van y… buscándose los 4 pesos hasta que Saldiguera seguió la tarea de decirnos “Vamos a ver qué hacemos aquí, Vamos a ver qué hacemos aqui.”

Entonces en la calle Salamanca entre Matanzas y Jovellanos allí donde comezamos nuestros ensayos, en un cuartico, que no tenía condiciones—que donde vivía el difunto Catalino, Florencio Calle, el compadre de Saldiguera—en un cuartico que no tenía condiciones de nada, ocho hombres, que no cabíamos, a veces que habian compañeros que estaban por fuera y querian ver el ensayo, digo “Chico, tú, no es posible, no es posible, tu no cabe aqui,” y allí Ud. ve allí surgio, comenzaron Los Muñequitos.

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:

Interviewer: In the heat of the rumba festival, I have met with two old rumberos, Saldiguera and Virulilla, two founders of the Muñequitos de Matanzas.

I want to tell you both that we've seen in this rumba festival that the matancero has rumba in his blood, that he immediately responds when he hears a conga drum. What is your opinion of the on-going vitality, and the deep roots of rumba here?

Saldiguera: The rumba that we have here today in Matanzas is one of the greatest things that I, who've been all over the island, have seen. We were not lucky enough to have been taught by anyone. [We learned] all by ourselves.

Because I was a singer and I sang in many conjuntos and things like that, I'm good at many things. By then Virulilla, who is a little younger than me, you understand? We hung out together, we hung out. We started then, I saw he had a voice, I said, "Wow, he has a tremendous voice!" So we had a voz tercera ["third voice" = high harmony].

And so... pow! We went everywhere, rehearsing late, sometimes we did not go to sleep until 4 or the 5 morning, rehearsing in the street...

Int: In the street?

Saldiguera: In the street. That was where we rehearsed.

Int: But how is that possible?

Saldiguera: Well, because it was just the two of us singing alone. This was in 1930, we would buy a steak, there was a place that served a good steak... we bought a steak, we would eat, then "Hey do you remember...?" and so, I said, wow, let's try it and see, and we'd roll up our sleeves and we'd practice it...

Virulilla: That's how we rehearsed.

Int: And at what time was this? I imagine that it would be...

Saldiguera: No no no... Late at night, sometimes we didn't sleep. The situation was very tough. We had always been in a hard-working environment since we were kids, because he was a mechanic and I worked in sugar. I grew up in sugar, I was raised there in La Francesa with the Fernandez there. I was always singing, since I was a boy, since 1923.

Int: A whole life singing!

Saldiguera: You were very young!

Int: No, I wasn't even thinking of coming into the world!

Virulilla: That is the story of Saldiguera and Virulilla. I, as an electrician and he, a sugar worker, but never again, because at that time there was no action. This was for pleasure, because we liked it. Then we gave ourselves the task of...Saldiguera's idea, "Virula, what do you think if we start a group?"

I said, "Saldi, that's a great idea, but we must try for high standards, right? Or individuals that
have our quality, and who do things right like we do, and we got started. We were, like, dockworkers: there was Chachá... we looked for Goyito, we looked for Papi, we looked for Pelladito. Pelladito was great in those days, trying to make a few bucks, he'd grab a guitar, running this way and that... looking for a few bucks until Saldiguera said "Let's see what we can do here. Let's see what we can do here."

So in Salamanca Street between Matanzas (Street) and Jovellanos (Street) we started our rehearsals, in a tiny room, that didn't have anything—where Catalino lived, the late Florencio Calle, compadre of Saldiguera—in that tiny room, eight men, who didn't fit, sometimes there were guys outside who wanted to see the rehearsals and I would say "Chico, it's not possible, you just can't fit in here," and so you see that's how the Muñequitos started.